Most brand teams talk about blurring the line between brand and product. Jon Howell has spent a decade actually doing it — at Twitch, Lyft, Robinhood, Dropbox, and now Ramp.

There's a reason that line keeps surviving: most companies aren't set up to erase it. In this episode, Josh and Ross sit down with Jon Howell, who leads brand experience design at Ramp — one of the fastest-moving fintechs building right now.

Jon makes the case that brand and product design aren't two lanes on the same highway; they're an infinity loop that feeds itself. He breaks down what it takes to actually build the connective tissue between those two worlds — not as a philosophy, but as a daily practice of shipping fast, reading the room, and sweating the details before the PM moves on.

Watch the podcast on Column Five's YouTube channel:
The Secret to Building Products People Fall in Love With with Jon Howell of Ramp